Dennis Tolkachev - From Fencing to Finance!

In this episode, Nikolay & Yuliya (Julia) are joined by their good friend and investment professional, Dennis Tolkachev.  Listen to hear Dennis share his story of how he came to the US from another country,  figured out what he wanted to do, and what he has learned on his path to success! 

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Transcript

0:00  
This is Success & Setbacks in NYC podcast with your hosts, Julia and Nikolay, coming to you from New York City with some of the most amazing life stories of how various people turn their challenges around. Tune in to get inspired, learn more or simply enjoy.

0:21  
Morning Good day, everybody. Today we have a special guest, good friend of ours, Dennis Tolkachev. Dennis is one long, long term friend of mine. We've had some good times together. Along with our other friends and Dennis Dennis is a very successful

0:46  
investor. He's currently with Capital Group, and then he's had an interesting story he'll share with us. Sure, we'll have a lot of questions to Dennis because he certainly made his path to success. And he was not born and did not grow up in the states and New York, came from another country. And we are very much looking forward to hearing your story.

1:09  
Thank you. Time will tell if I'm a successful investor but you know, certainly an investor. Good to see you guys.

1:17  
Yes, sir. Well, if you don't mind, maybe just give us a little bit more of an intro about what you've done. What you're doing right now. Maybe a little glimpse of any future interesting projects.

1:30  
Sure. So I'll guess I'll start from the beginning. I was born and raised in St. Petersburg, Russia. Around when I turned 18 I moved to the US. I've got a I got a scholarship for fencing at The Ohio State University.

1:44  
Will share more about that later.

1:46  
Sounds good. That was you know, a very interesting experience moving from kind of, you know, big city in Russia to somewhat smaller town but with a lot of culture around college and sports in the Midwest, spent four years there majored in finance and accounting and then ended up getting a internship and ultimately, a full time job at Goldman Sachs is an investment isn't isn't an analyst in the investment banking division, which was a, I'd say, a very good start for a career. That certainly opened a lot of doors. So I 2007 moved, moved to New York, and started my professional career at Goldman, where I spent about four years first in investment banking, and then in a private equity arm. met someone who you guys may know, person called Robert for fkn for whom I ultimately worked for, you know, brief period of time before business school. But before that, I spent about a year long short hedge fund, also in New York called Kingdom Capital Management, investing in European equities was very good experience. But it was sort of a very rough market. Shortly after I joined, there was a financial financial crisis sort of happened in 2007. But for a number of years, it sort of continued to cause damage around, you know, particularly European markets. Europe didn't react nearly as fast as the US to kind of save the banks and probe the financial system. And so we kind of had to deal with consequences well into 2011 2012. And so my stint at Kingdon was somewhat short. And sort of around that timeframe, I started exploring the idea of applying to business school, did apply to business school and had about eight to nine months to work before that and got in touch with Robert, who at the time was starting his own company, in help him out to kind of get it off the ground. for about eight, nine months before going to Columbia,

3:44  
did you meet him at Goldman, or at Goldman? Yes,

3:47  
we work in the same group and had a couple of projects together that I can help him out with and so that that's the relationship that kind of goes back to 2000. I'm gonna say 10,011, you guys

4:01  
still in touch?

4:02  
We'd stay in touch. Not as often these days. He's exceptionally busy, successful person, you know, once in a while, you know, being each other, but not nearly as much as I would like to which which is fine, everybody. Everybody's busy. So, of course. So so yeah. So went to Columbia, graduated from Columbia in 2015. And since then have been working at Capital Group focused primarily on high yield, debt and some distressed investing as well. Covering energy has kind of most Russians, I think, end up doing, you know, looking at oil and gas, but then there's, well, a couple of other industries. So for now, that's sort of my essay where I spend 100% of my professional time. And I think most of the projects will probably be related to those initiatives at the Capital Group. Sounds fun. Yes, sounds long but fun moments.

4:57  
Yeah. To those of you who know may not know what our protagonist he is a founder of a company called compass. And we all have kind of everybody in this room has some type of connection to the company, I think and that's what Dennis was referring to. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly an interesting story. i i We know that a lot of people that you know that we know Nikolay knows and myself have not grown up here have come from other countries from our countries from from some others too, and probably had a similar path to yours. Started in one place came from a small city to a big city, or vice versa, like you did, and went to school started job. So it's, of course, it sounds super easy. Now, when you describe it going back ABCD I did this, this and this? How did you? I mean, how did you? How did you feel in the beginning of your path? I mean, it was not always you can look forward and you cannot know what will happen in the future. Did you have any crossroads where you had to choose one route versus the other? Did you have any doubts whether you should choose this direction versus the other?

6:10  
For sure, I think almost kind of goes without saying, particularly for people from I think other countries and in cultures, right? When you think about Russia, I left in 2003 in my parents kind of was born born and raised in sort of Soviet Union. And and I was effectively raised as again, kind of the leftovers of the big country that had very little to do with business, at least in an official way. Right. And so, coming to the US, em getting exposed to the business world, by itself was sort of a very eye opening experience. And I'd say that there were a lot of decisions along the way, right even as, as what now may seem like a simple decision to pick a sort of major in college was kind of big an important decision point, like I have a younger brother who ended up being a programmer, and, you know, has a good Korean programming, which feels like a very hot area right now. Right. So certainly a lot of great opportunities. To me, I felt that that was sort of not something I was interested in finance seemed like a very vague concept. So getting getting some advice from from peers, especially especially more experienced peers in college was sort of the first step in sort of the, the process through which I tend to go to when I when I try to decide, you know, either professionally or personally kind of what route to pick. And that's it, the importance of mentors, and people who can be around to kind of help you think through options, is an important factor. And so that's sort of kind of triangulated for my entire career, I mean, up every step along the way, you know, either, you know, first speaking to major than second speaking, or figuring out what to do with that major. And when you sit in Columbus, Ohio, you know, Wall Street seems like, you know, not it's literally hundreds, hundreds and hundreds of miles away. But it's also figuratively, right? Like, it's a little bit of a different world to wish you would not get exposed to living in Russia. And you also don't want to get exposed and living in Columbus, Ohio, where Michael Main Street

8:17  
versus the Wall Street.

8:19  
That's right. That's right. And, you know, you make certain trips, you meet people, and you kind of gradually start to, you know, pick up in some knowledge and understanding of what the career would entail. And then, as you transition from one role to another, in finance, it's also a very big world, right? They can figure out what exactly you'd be doing. It's also kind of those big steps and big crossroads. And so far, I'd say it's been a long path, but I certainly enjoy what I'm doing right now. But But I, but I also never sort of realize that this sort of career existed when I was, you know, a student that can college. So suddenly a lot of Crossroads kind of decision points and a long path, but I'm pretty happy with where I am right now, I'd say professionally.

9:05  
So what inspired you to do finance? I mean, you had to pick up the idea from somewhere. I mean, if it was me, I would probably say Gordon Gekko, but I never chose finance. It's actually funny.

9:15  
Like, we I first watched this movie for the first time, about three months ago, hello, a bunch of my friends who are in finance that have said that that's what led them to the to the world of Watchmen. I you know, to me, it was more. First, it was sort of a more practical industry where you could not only kind of do a lot of academic academia or sort of research type, job, a word but also apply the learnings to the kind of the day to day of your life and that sort of intersection of theory and practice, I felt was exceptionally well balanced in finance and which ultimately led me to kind of explore learn a little bit more about it. It also kind of when you think about colleges, particularly in the US feels like a lot of degrees that you attain, don't necessarily prepare you for immediate job right out of college, unless it's something practical, like finance or pre med or, you know, programming. A lot of schools, at least, you know, back, you know, 15 years ago, so we're kind of preparing you for grad schools, right? So you'll pick up a lot of theoretical knowledge, and then you'll apply to graduate school, and then I won't have them, would you, you know, go pick a profession, route finance, that allows you to hit the ground running with certain skill sets, you know, pretty early on that you could build a career, get the professional experience in them, kind of decided what to do with it. So that practical element of, you know, coming from another country, getting opportunity to get professional experience early on, hopefully make some money, you know, hopefully go to graduate school, subsequently, something that, you know, at least in my case, made it a very practical and sort of reasonable decision. So that's,

10:58  
you know, make sense. So no regrets whatsoever about that. So,

11:01  
so far, so far? No, I mean, I do enjoy it, they obviously, obviously comes with, you know, ups and downs. And if people could see me, I certainly lost a lot of hair and what I was not lost this sort of turning right, day by day, can certainly be stressful, especially if you're an investor in you know, focus on oil and gas. But it's, it's a, it's certainly a very interesting job, you effectively, get paid to learn about industries, learn about the world around you make decisions that help you know, people, and who would kind of trust you with capital. And I'd say it's, it's in many ways, a very, very fulfilling career now at least has been so far.

11:39  
So he said, There are ups and downs. What are some ups and downs? Maybe like two or three examples of each one?

11:47  
Yep. Look, let's do it this way. I characterize Ops is both intellectual and result. Results were related, right? Like when you think about, you know, interact intellectual ops, like, I didn't know where oil comes from, right, for example, right? Well, you don't, paper and packaging is another industry, like, I didn't realize that 75% of aluminum that has been produced is still in circulation, it kind of gets gets recycled and gets put back into Kansas cetera. So like, you pick up this data points, and in let's say, you learn about oil. And you have to understand the politics and geopolitics, you learn. What about me to least about Russia? And, you know, along with some kind of practical investment knowledge, you also pick up a lot of history, you understand, you know, why certain countries are at war with other countries? Like, what are the geopolitical implications of, of one decision, you know, made, let's say, in the US versus, you know, some of the regions in the world and that's, I'd say, it's very fascinating, because now, when you news or when we watch news, or read about something you can actually avoid, listen, you know, I find myself sort of being able to, I think, understand a little bit better as to, you know, the background of situations and developments and in what those situations may translate into be a, you know, for the general population of certain countries or a political situation in certain countries. And so I think that, that sort of intellectual appreciation and knowledge you pick up as you explore different companies explore different industries is I'd say it, it's something I get a lot of joy out. So that's, that's one app, you know, that app, I would say is, look, if you do the work properly, and you do a little research, and, you know, spend a lot of times exploring that particular bond, or a stock spending count, or counting countless hours interview management teams meeting with, you know, consultants, you know, touring the facilities, just reading about the background, and, and then ultimately picking up the right investment decision that that translates into attractive returns, that's sort of like, okay, well, your effort has been compensated in, in the form of, you know, stock being born being, you know, more up than what's in the broader market. And that feels like, okay, that's time well spent, right, because that stock or bond can be held in multiple portfolios around around the country, and so that profess very real tangible translation into you know, better well being for a lot of clients of yours. So, that's another, you know, bounce there are numerous, right, like you, it's a, it's a stressful job, because things change basically, on an hourly or minute or half an hour kind of basis. Right? You have, you have to be going to be able to react very quickly to news and be able to react without having all the information that you need. And a lot of the times the decisions that you make and end up not the right ones and, and so it's sort of the perpetual need to to be able to react and be able to put two and two together is great, but it's also it also can be put stressful right? The SEC it's it's a it's a job that you don't necessarily can work in silicon turn off easily from right like to take a real break, it takes a while to truly disconnect, right? Because even the guy was having lunch with the with the person who has been very influential in my career earlier today we're discussing how you're getting on the flight these days. And you see, you know, the flight, you'll say, half empty like, Man, this is not good for oil demand. Like, you just you just can never disconnect when you go a trailer location, you can never disconnect yourself and like thinking about the implications of whatever you observe,

15:34  
you become very analytical, I guess, about the surroundings.

15:37  
And like, like I'd say, yeah, exactly. That but also you, it's very hard to disconnect from it, which may not always be healthy. Right. And so I'd say that's the the, it's, I wouldn't necessarily call it is a doubt. But like, it's something that you have to be able to manage around. or disconnect. Right. It's it's certainly a challenge. So somebody

15:55  
who can do nine to five and unplug after five, it's a it's a different story. But also, who was it? I think like Elon Musk said that we like our compensation is direct correlation from the difficulty of the problems that we solve. So I feel like, you know, the more critical thinking there is involved, the more potential financial benefits throughout your

16:20  
career or downsides.

16:23  
Yes, that's right. Yes. Julia, we jot them down the question.

16:27  
Yes. Just a few questions I want to ask you. So just going back to what you guys just were discussing about not being able to unplug? Have you found a way to try to find some kind of work life balance between what you do and your personal life? Or are you still looking for ways to do it? Is there any?

16:45  
Yeah, it's I buy. We're not in favor. Yeah, look, it's it's for sure. I think that's critically important. I think in in any career, and certainly certainly crucial, I think, in the world of finance, that tends to be more and more connected and fast paced the year by year, I mentioned that sort of fencing played a very important role in my life. So everything that has to do with sports, particularly with fencing, and something that I tried to kind of take up more and more. And I used to do way more consistently now, I sit on the board of organization called fencers Club, which is, I think, the oldest fencing club in the US. And I tried to go fast once in a while, but inevitably, you know, after half an hour turns into a big kind of board and, you know, organizational discussion, as opposed to actual, like fun on the strip, which, you know, I'm trying to get away more and more from and actually, you know, do the actual fencing when I go, so that, yeah, that's, that's like a very good way to describe it, because you sort of focus on your bone and you focus on the technique, and immediately sort of forget, at least for an hour or a while you're doing it, like all the other issues that you may be dealing with. So, sports is certainly an important one, I'd say I've kind of picked up especially during COVID Now that you can save a little bit of time and commute, I picked up more and more reading particularly sort of Russian Russian reading because that just even dealing with language that you don't necessarily deal with on a professional basis day to day allows you to go and disconnect and so I spent I'd say I spent a lot of time catching up on the classes that I never had a chance to read in school and and just like generally kind of you know, learning or I guess the tapping back into try to connect back to my you know, Russian Russian version and culture. And so that's an area where I spend more and more time on and that just picking up additional things like you know, my brother and I got the diving licenses and so we try to go and travel with friends around the world and do some diving but in general can nature hikes, things like that. That's another thing that helps me you know, balance trying to stay balanced. When when I need to disconnect.

18:58  
Yeah, I think that's pretty great. Because, like, we've never had this conversation, I think in a podcast, but overall like anything that artificially like brings you up, I feel like it can have a potential of like bringing you down as well as significantly which are like the bad things like I'll go and stuff. But I feel like with sports apart from injuries, with sports, I feel like it's one of the most natural ways to just get your mind off. I actually came here for college to play tennis professional 91 as well. So I can relate and I feel like same story. I don't do it enough anymore, but they tried to get out as much as possible because they actually most of my friends went define and try that when they came to when they came to state so some of the guys work for ag some Goldman and whatnot. But yeah, I couldn't agree more for us. It's been like sports. I think Julia is like extremely into sports in the morning. I skip it more often. And like spiritually be

19:54  
nearly as cool as wild as I go

20:00  
Exactly, but some spiritual things as well as meditation, and some others, I think are great additions.

20:06  
That's right. Meditation is another one at the top. I have to be way more disciplined about it. But you know, when I when I can I try to?

20:12  
Yeah, I think for me the most consistent I've been was like 14 days. Yeah,

20:15  
I think that's right. Thank you on this trach and 1814. And then he got off rails for a couple of days,

20:21  
would you? Would you say that now that obviously, we're in 2021. And we're still dealing with the issues of the pandemic? Would you say that COVID kind of brought different or new or all new things into your life that you didn't have time for before? They kind of impact you in a more positive way? Would you say or? Not always? Yeah,

20:40  
I think surely positive implications, right, you cannot you read or learn about the, the consequence health consequences that, you know, some of your relatives or your friends may have as a result of COVID. And some of the losses that families experience, it sort of makes you appreciate health a little bit more, and also sort of like, makes you kind of revisit, you know, the priorities. So I think it's been like a healthy, Wake Up Calls, like, hey, like, you know, there are certain things you can probably give up and like, those are not super important. Whereas, you know, family, friends, you know, general health and well being is something that things that you should probably avoid, as in my case, I decided that that's important to prioritize, to prioritize. So that's the, that was a positive implication. Look, as I mentioned, you save time on the commute, right, like you some of the work calls that you don't necessarily need to participate on in terms of like being active speaker that you can listen, like those can be balanced with a walk, you know, in the park, or run on the treadmill. And so you ultimately find way, way more time to exercise and stay generally kind of more healthier. That's, that's another thing. And then again, like, now, you can take a break and watch some TV. And sometimes it's, it's not always so poker is like, there is actually great lot of great content on YouTube. And Amazon these days that you can, you can pick up and somewhat like, you know, history or documentaries, which I tend to enjoy, as well as some other kind of soap operas. That helps as well. So

22:17  
he was the list later.

22:21  
Well, also, like since the show is based in New York City? How like with your general outlook on New York City's like this, is the place where you want to be? Or is this more of like a traditional stage?

22:33  
Yeah, that's a great question. I do think New York has a ton to offer to anyone at any stage of their lives. I thought that was a that was an exceptional place to be in, right out of college and kind of earlier in your career, and I still enjoy it, because that's where at least in the world of finance is still a very hot center. I think time will tell whether that's somewhere that I ended up, you know, longer term, I do think that at some point when you know, comes down to family kids, a there might be opportunities to raise them, raise kids and kind of build a family elsewhere in terms of just getting more space and, you know, having less stress in your kind of day to day life. Because you don't have to navigate like a really busy city. So, but I think professionally, I'll probably still, so long as I stay in this career, I'll probably, you know, probably be tied to New York in one way or another beat through conferences, or be through election office space being in New York. And that's where at least most of my colleagues these days are. So I think there will be like initial gravitation to the city. And look, I mean, it's still we we experienced now as a result of reopening, right, like the concerts, the shows are here, museums are here for granted before I know exactly, but now you get to appreciate it more. And like it's in the city, like, every single weekend, there's something that you can do, which I think is a great environment to raise your kids. And so you don't necessarily need to live in the city. But I think access to having access to it is pretty helpful. Yeah. Yeah, good schools can't be as good fencing, clubs, whatever that would be right. Like, I do think that I have a pretty positive outlook on the city. But I'm not exactly sure that that's like 100%, where I'll be for the rest of my life, because I think things are changing. Yeah. So we'll see.

24:26  
Predict for anyone where there will be. So now looking back at your half, let's say in the last two years, many years, for our listeners who are potentially in the other parts of the world, or other parts of the United States, or somewhere in the middle of nowhere in a different country, who would ultimately dream about being in your position,

24:50  
you just read my mind. My question,

24:54  
what would be that one or two or three pieces of advice that you would give to young children? Now for listening to this podcast.

25:01  
So how do they get to be a fencer?

25:03  
Yeah, that's the first. You got it. I think that's, that actually leads to what I was going to say, I think it's very important to find great teachers in your life, like first and foremost, especially when you're young, I think, bearing up with someone who is has this exceptional knowledge and whatever skill that you're looking to build, and surround yourself by people who feel passionate about it, and that you may not even feel passionate about it in the beginning, but you will inevitably be drawn, given their commitment to whatever skill that would be right. I think that's like, critically important. In my case, my dad is a fencing coach, he was very successful fencer himself was amazing, right? And then Russia itself was a very strong fencing country. And so, you know, we worked with people who were like, you know, three, four time Olympic champion and like, 10 time world champions, and like, if you just surround and get advice and learning from those type of people, you tend, you end up being relatively successful in the world of fancy, right, but then you can apply it to anywhere else, like to any other skill be, you know, finance, be it, you know, programming, arts arts, exactly. If you get if you first try to figure out what is this that you, you know, more passionate about, where you naturally gravitate to then find very, very good teachers, and instructors. And I think just stick to it, I do think that inevitably, our stress, quality, Trump's quantity translates into quality. And I do think that like, a little bit of perseverance along the way helps. Again, as I said, In the beginning, time will tell if I'm a good investor, but at least I'm willing, for now, I'm willing to stick stick it out. And and hopefully, the quantity will translate into quality ultimately, because I've just seen this cap on and you know, in fencing in academia, in, in finance, in general, not necessarily investment related investment financing, so if to date, and I think that the same approach, ultimately should work, hopefully, with investing as well. So again, very self up with the best minds and good instructors, and be willing to kind of stick it out if things don't work out just by, you know, putting in hours. I think that certainly helps.

27:15  
Yep. So anyone who's listening right now, who would, who has a dream of being somewhat in a position and benefits today, that's a really great piece of advice I have there, besides the tasks that you enjoy, which I actually enjoy. Have there been any books that you've read? Not necessarily recently, it could be something really old, some old classic, inspirational book or motivational or whatever it may be that kind of inspired you to take the next step? Or to stay on your path? Sometimes?

27:45  
It's good question. I do tend to read to unwind so it sits there. I'm not sure if I always connect books to kind of professional life. I think a great book was there is one, Greg Lowe godness was, was an Olympic champion and diving for the US. He also had HIV early in his life, and he sort of competed with HIV and just like reading about his life. He Kalki sort of persevered from his for his personal travels, the health troubles and kind of stuck with the sport was sort of very interesting for me to read about educational because it's sort of you gotta watch some of his videos like you observe it and see that hey, like, this guy is super calm under pressure, he gets him this spring board and dives away then like it's, it's phenomenal performance. And, and then you kind of read about everything that's going on in the background. It just shows that look, everybody's dealing with issues, everybody's dealing with demons, it's not in no way do you there very, very infrequently is that everything kind of falls into place, and you are an ideal setting. So you just have to kind of deal with it right like and try to perform and when award I think that was like a pretty inspirational book that I translated into kind of more professional setting. But it's called breaking the surface. I think that's what it's called by Greg and ganus I don't know if there is other ones that look I certainly appreciate it reading like American classics recently, like, you know, Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn, just like it's the using appreciation for the American culture a little bit better. We've been living in this country for almost half of my life. But it's always been like okay, grades, you know, GPA, then like work and more work and so the different when you read it for yourself, exactly. You like it gives you appreciation for you know, the cultural background of a lot of people and kind of what's what they read as they kind of grow up and why they may behave a certain way because the sort of the cultural thing that they've been promoting this book. So that like, to me sort of, on a more personal level, reading more American classics is something that I found, you know, pretty helpful in kind of day to day American life.

30:11  
I think it's wonderful that you look at both sides, your heritage and the country, US where you live, because I think it's important to remember your own culture, and also appreciate and contribute towards where you live currently. Because then all other people like they come from one country, not necessarily from Russia, but like from one country, and they just stick around the circle of people from their country instead of just like exploring and seeing what like the country they moved to has to offer.

30:38  
I think that's right. And there's another category that will try to blend in so much that they kind of try to cut the ties with the origin.

30:45  
That's right. I think a fine balance.

30:47  
Yeah, I think a fine balance. Yeah, it helps and opens up your just your mind as well, with different cultures, I feel like the more people you can understand and relate, the better off you can be, even in professional and personal life. I think that's right. But I actually just wanted to point out, like, one of the reasons why we started podcast is because that whole thing about social media, showing that everybody just has like the perfect life. And I really liked the book that you mentioned, I haven't read it. But I like the idea that the person was just showing, like the struggles that they had. And I feel like we've made it a lot more often in the books rather than in social media. That's why I think like, there has to be a pivot the shift where social media also shows that people went through like difficulties. And they are either dealing with now or were able to persevere it and, of course, health issues. We don't want to wish it upon anyone. But when it happens, we wish that those people overcome it. That's right.

31:50  
So looking back again, one more time, would you would you have done anything differently? Would you have? Would you change anything in your past? Would you change? A choice that you made?

32:03  
Yes, good question. I think I think about a once in a while. Yeah, might say, look, one thing that I think kind of relates to education, I think I've had, I had a very good education that I cannot at all complain about, and I was lucky to receive, you know, the scholarships and, and had the money to pay for grad school and kind of access to like great instructors, great facilities and great knowledge. I do wonder that, you know, I sort of pigeon holed myself a little bit early into this whole kind of professional finance, economics accounting world to earlier, right. And that's what I do. But then on the other hand, now, that allows me the opportunity when I do have downtime to sort of try to make up for the lost opportunities, right? Like I mentioned, classical literature, but it's also things like history, right? Spend a little bit more time on learning history, it gives you a realization that, hey, there are so many so many avenues of life that you've never explored a camera reading a book that my brother recommended. To me, I think it's called the short history of nearly everything. And they start out with sort of how the planets were formed, then what's called the planet Earth, what's sort of with the decor, and how the dinosaurs dinosaurs died in URLs, like man, like I knew literally 5% of that. And as they is every single topic is a explore like things like DNA, you know, etc, etc. And initially, I was like, Wow, there's so many aspects of life that you're sort of done gently, and maybe in passing got exposed to in your, let's say, physics one on one class, but never really dove in deeper just because you have to prioritize Korea or prioritize the grades. Now, there is this opportunity to pick up something else and kind of go back and feel those sort of knowledge holes. But I wish I sort of started doing it a little bit early, because now you realize, like, when you just talk to some people, you like, man, like this person has such a comprehensive understanding of the situation. And just because they sort of, yeah, they had a, let's say, physics degree or math degree. And then you know, for grad school, they pick something else up and, and so I think it all just comes down to be willingness to be a little bit more well rounded in the sense that actually taking the time to invest the time in learning as opposed to just like getting to result because I think at the end of the day, all of those small steps will accumulate and become a little bit more thoughtful and comprehensive. And I think that matters a lot in at least in my career, for sure. In my job, and so I think that's kind of one again, be pick up another major or do like a double major or actually take the time, a an hour a day to explore something that outside of you know, general kind of thing. As a business, etc, or sports that I had to practice as well.

35:05  
That's a very good point actually. Does your brother fans as well,

35:08  
he used to hear he used to get similar kinds of background. And he also went to Ohio State, also an athletic scholarship, speak another major. And so it's a different lifestyle. Now,

35:19  
what if he knew because he's in Dallas, he's in Dallas,

35:23  
made some very cool.

35:26  
So your fans sound like wonderful people who certainly weighed really good ground for you and your brother, and for your careers in education and everything. We do realize, I mean, both myself and Nico, I grew up in Russia, in the 90s. In the 80s. Do you think your parents we do now alcantara totally different life? Right? Do you think your parents? Did they always support your decisions, your choices? Or do you think they kind of had a fundamentally different idea about how life should be and then you had to introduce a new way of life to them?

36:05  
Yeah, I think I think I've been fortunate to have the support of Barrett, who my parents and the the time and they effort, and they suddenly invested a lot and spent a lot of time, you know, bringing us and probably some opportunities that they never had. So exceptionally thankful, I don't think that I've ever felt pressure just because I kind of moved out when I was 18. And so since then, because they realize that they used to live in a very different country and live a very different life. Like, they sometimes asked me to go to the bank, and like it was like, you do work as a teller and you have to explain it like, no, it's a little bit different. Like, I might do a job and finances like not what you guys do day to day, and they just they don't like they don't understand the differences, right? So it just shows you that this example shows you is how, I think a little advice career wise they can possibly give you they could have possibly given me at least, but they certainly laid out the foundation. Where I do feel a lot of pressure these days, it's a lot of kind of around social things like well, it's time to get married, have kids so like, visit? Yeah, I'd say that that's when pressure still doesn't subside.

37:21  
Yeah, I mean, we can I guess we can say with certainty that a lot of the way our parents grew up, and this is for all of our listeners, and I know have lessons in different countries and with parents and feminism between countries. Some beliefs from what from the previous generation are completely, totally different to what they are now for our generation for millennials. And I know a lot of us have to deal with pressure from our parents in career decisions, education decisions, and both personal life decisions, and some get full support. So I think I guess it's it's different for everybody. So hopefully, I do hope everybody's parents, at some point will stop trusting their kids with their decision center supporting themselves. That's right.

38:08  
Well, I think this was wonderful, who supports a very different podcast, I would say, and I think really enjoyed it, we should have more people from corporate environment, because we don't want to say like, oh, corporate environment is bad. Just be intrapreneur. No, I think, for each for each their own. And I think this was great. And it's also very nice to hear that you're passionate about other things and learning more about cultures, books, and all that stuff, which I think ultimately can better your work your personal life and just the mindset in general.

38:41  
Yeah, no, that's right, of course. And we do know that many people want to be in the position that you are and probably thinking how to get there. And so we want to thank you for sharing your advice on everything from work life balance to mentorship and importance of people surrounding you. It's certainly will, I'm sure it'll be helpful for someone to take.

39:03  
Of course, guys, thank you for your time. It's been it's been a pleasure.

39:06  
Absolutely, we actually one last thing, we usually ask people I don't know, if you run like a social media that you want to share, if you want to, you're welcome to share. If not, maybe if you want to share your email if people want to pick your brain. That would be great.

39:20  
Yeah, it's, it's, I think email probably the best. It's my first name. Underscore last name.

39:28  
We'll put it on description. So yeah, so

39:33  
would you say if anyone wanted to get advice on if somebody has a choice to make or decision to be made? Who's in a similar on a similar path with you or would it be okay. Thank you.

39:46  
All right, well, get ready for about 100

39:48  
years. Good thing is always Likewise. Thank you. Bye, everyone. Have a good day, everyone.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai